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Report 416
Report #416 Skillset: Shofangi Skill: Crunch Org: Shofangi Status: Rejected Jul 2010 Furies' Decision: We will review writhing from monk grapples with contort. Problem: Crunch used to be used as an instakill, but it currently has been rendered useless due to anyone with a simple system being able to writhe out of all monk grapples before the monk can regain balance. After locking someone's head in a grapple and having her not writhe, I tried the ability: it didn't work the first time. Nor the second, nor the third. In fact, I had to keep grappling her head and trying all over again everytime I failed. 0 R: 0 Solution #1: Turn Crunch into a modifier for Stomp, giving it the chance to crush the skull if stomping the head at 4 momentum with chances increasing the more head wounds someone has. If used under 4 momentum, it would only increase wounds to the head. If used with 0 wounds to the head, it wouldn't land. Player Comments: ---on 7/4 @ 05:50 writes: What would the chance be at 0 wounds? And how much wounds would you need to get up to for it to be a very high or 100% to work? ---on 7/4 @ 18:44 writes: Well...I was testing various wounding forms out with someone. We tried different ways: first with him not curing, I worked my way up to 5 momentum using only head-targetted forms. The result was somewhere really close to Medium: 950 or so wounds, and another time it went up to a thousand. Then I told him to cure his wounds as I went, and worked myself up to five momentum, getting him to pause just before I hit the last form. His wounds were significantly lower: 560 or so. If at 0 wounds, I already said in the solution: The modifier simply wouldn't have any chance to hit. ---on 7/5 @ 05:16 writes: What happened to fixing the greenlock problem? ---on 7/13 @ 03:58 writes: I don't seem to be able to writhe out of monk grapples before they recover if they use the speed mod. The only people that seem to be able to writhe out those grapples before the speed mod using monk recovers balance is those with contortion. Also Xenthos has a point, Shofangi really do not need an insta-kill upgrade until something is done about the ease at which Shofangi can slit-lock a person over and over. I know this from experience, because I was able to do it with ease as one. ---on 7/14 @ 05:14 writes: This report is about Crunch. The speed mod does help, and I can often get my balance back before they writhe when I use it, but even when I manage to pull Crunch off, the skill is so lousy that it takes ten tries to work - therefore the reason for this report. In an actual fight, I don't think it would be efficient to see a monk just grappling your head over and over and trying to slam it down on his knee without any effect, until he gets lucky and it works, instead of actually trying to fight you in other ways. There's pretty much no fun in combat with that, not to mention it's inefficient. This proposed solution makes it so that you actually have to build up wounds in order to pull off the kill. At Medium wounds your chance could be 10% for it to work or so. At Heavy, chances would spike to 45%, and at Critical, they'd go up even more. Due to building wounds being so hard for monks, I'd say this sounds pretty fair. ---on 7/15 @ 00:16 writes: Right, that's what this report is about -now-. When it started it was about the slitlock problem. Which I was on board with fixing. I'm just wondering why it switched. ---on 7/15 @ 00:17 writes: Since the slitlock problem is far more serious than this one! ---on 7/15 @ 00:23 writes: Essentially, I suppose I'm a little annoyed by us being told to put up an Envoy fix for the perma-slitlock problem by Sior, you putting up a report, other people doing other reports, and then you switching to something else (without commenting until after you'd finalized and others had as well). Which delays fixing it by a month. :/ Honestly, that's the more serious problem Shofangi has going for it right now, and it's tough to talk about -upgrading- it when that's already on the table and not getting addressed, to my mind. Sorry for the previous two comments, I should've just done it all-together, but this's where my frustration stems from! ---on 7/15 @ 17:11 writes: If I 'fix' this problem you talk of, the Shofangi potentially get rendered a lot less effective than they already are now, and I'd have to wait -at least- a month to see they have better options. ---on 7/15 @ 22:08 writes: So the solution in this case might have been to say, "You know, I need to do this as well-- how about we use two slots to try to get some balance?" instead of... misleading us like this. I doubt it was intentional, but that's just the way it's turned out, and I'd much rather see the slitlock issue fixed before or -alongside- Shofangi changes, but not after. ---on 7/16 @ 08:06 writes: I'd have liked to see this after the slitlock issue is addressed. Complaints about difficulties building wounds is voided when the target is greenlocked (because obviously, they can't cure). As it is, medium wound state (400, isn't it?) + prone basically means once a Shofangi reaches mo5 (or maybe even mo4), they can hit the 10% insta chance against any target without wounds at will (since they can do paralysis/prone, and probably senso/slitthroat in the same form as the crunch (275 ka from the AB?). I think that the percentage chances of death need to be looked at, at the respective wound states (it's like a 5 times easier version of behead at the moment), if this is implemented. (And I don't see how people should be normal-writhing out of the grapple with that aslaran level 2 balance bonus. That said, I do agree with Sadie that Crunch does needs to change. ) ---on 7/16 @ 08:07 writes: Just to add - I don't think Shofangi should lose greenlock capability completely. ---on 7/20 @ 08:50 writes: On a more constructive note, if the problem is that writhing makes it unwieldy, could you not make it a grapple *starter* instead, akin to how kata choke works? Throw in heavy blunt damage, raise the ka cost on it (so you can only do it at mo4/5) and/or have it drop 2mo. Possible fractureskull afflict upon failing? Give it the scaling wound requirement mentioned here. Then voila, working insta. I think crunch is one of the more flavoursome skills in Shofangi, personally - I really think it'd be a shame to reduce it to a mere stomp modifier. ---on 7/22 @ 11:26 writes: I also found a comment by Nejii on a forum thread ("I was bored again, and...", thread id:17067, towards the end) from Feb '09 stating that Crunch already had a minimum wound threshold of sorts. Perhaps look into that as a comparison when considering minimum wound states for success chance? ---on 7/23 @ 14:17 writes: That does not help Crunch at all. As it is now, it rarely works due to the current low success rate. That is the -very- reason I wanted to up it so it has a chance to actually pull off. It's already a feat to grapple and pull off the Crunch part as I previously explained. The success rate for it makes it nearly impossible to work in combat. ---on 7/24 @ 03:37 writes: I suppose if you really wanted to level the insta with the other monk guilds, could slot in a new 1500ka skill at Trans Shofangi, that afflicts with disembowel. ---on 7/28 @ 08:31 writes: I'm not positive that Burst Organs and Disembowel have the same timer or not, but assuming that they do (or even don't), the ease that Shofangi can hardlock would make them very capable of insta-killing anyone. Ninjakari's burst organs, when it's successful, immediately follows a greenlock the majority of the time. Unlike the Ninjakari, however, Shofangi aren't dependent on two poisons procing (and let's not forget how easy the greenlock is) and would gain an insta that is extremely easy to pull off.